So! That's where Walter Wangerin got the characters in his Dun Cow trilogy!! Pertelote, Chauntecleer, Russel the Fox - they're all from Chaucer and from this tale in particular. I never knew (or if I knew I'd completely forgotten). As fantasy novels I'm not sure you'll know them, Karen (that's not a criticism, just recalling you said somewhere that it's not a favourite genre of yours), but they're hugely enjoyable and telling in so many ways. Now I need to think about how much of this tale Wangerin actually appropriated, if not just the characters and their names. I guess that's the kind of thing all authors do - taking and refining, taking and reframing.
Oh, also want to say: I hope you do well in the CT awards, the book deserves to do so. I'd put it in my top 10 of books read this year for sure. Bravo!
Richard, I know of Wangerin, of course. He is often mentioned as one of the great contemporary Christian writers. I've never read his stuff, so didn't know this connection! Of course, these fables and fairy tales generally have long histories and many re-tellings, so it seems Wangerin was continuing that. Even Chaucer drew on the French tradition of Reynard the fox.
This is actually one of the things that makes the novel so modern--it was the pioneer in claiming/attempting to explicitly create something "new." In pre-modern literature, that wasn't even a concept.
Thanks for the kind words about my book! The CT contest is final. I was a finalist in my category but did not win. The competition was pretty tough!
Ahhh! Thank you for this lovely breakdown of the tale I cut my Senior-English-Teacher teeth on! This is too well-phrased! I can't even....
"The chickens are us, dear reader.
We, the human beings, are the ones who get so caught up in our high faluitn’ book learnin’ and philosophizin’ and readin’ and writin’ and ‘rithmetic, our dreams and aspirations, our glossy feathers (and our harem of fine hens, one of whom our dear Chauntecleer “feathered” twenty times before 9 a.m. [lines 357-58]) and fine singing voices that we too easily talk too much and see too little."
On my current hiatus from teaching high school English, as a new mom, I now see how little I was seeing as I tried to guide students through literature!
You know what? I had a lot of fun writing that part--and it didn't come to me right away. So, I'm so glad you noted this and found it meaningful! Really glad! Thank you.
I'm so enjoying your weekly writings, even though I don't always get to respond! Congratulations on your CT finalist award! It is so well deserved and I recommend The Evangelical Imagination to all my reader friends.
Chanticleer is the Canterbury Tale I knew from childhood, as it occurred in prose versions both the old school readers we had and also as in stand-alone illustrated books (Barbara Cooney's Caldecott Award winning illustrated version is the best). So I didn't recall how, uh, earthy the original is. I am accustomed to anthropomorphized animals, but it is a bit surreal when the animals' conversation and personality is anthropomorphized but their barnyard relations are not, such as with that line about Chaunticleer's hens being his sisters and paramours.
When you started this Chaucer series, Karen, my immediate mental question was how you would handle the bawdier stories like the Miller's and Merchant's Tales. Then I realized we weren't doing the whole thing, but I keep wondering, as we have persuaded you to add more tales, if you will eventually get stuck drawing a useful lesson from the Miller :)
Congratulations on your book being short-listed by CT!
Funny story about the Miller's Tale: When I took my first full-time teaching post 25 years ago at an evangelical university, I got to teach the British Lit survey my first semester. I was so excited! I included in the syllabus all the tales that were in our anthology, which included the Miller's Tale because, well, of course! However, by the time we got to that point in the semester, I had a better sense of my audience (I went to secular schools myself). Fresh from a state university in NY, I didn't know how tender and sheltered they would be. I realized the class before that I could not stand up there and teach that tale to them. So I just told them we were going to skip it and go on to the next thing, as though I just wanted to lighten the load a bit and never mentioned any other reason.
In selecting the tales to cover here, I admit, I considered the Miller's Tale. But having learned from last time, I realized I have a sense of some of my audience, not all, and erred on the side of gentilesse. :)
If I really were teaching a Brit Lit survey, we'd be at Milton by now! Of course, I knew this pace would be slower. And I'm also thinking, if I write these for a year, I can always start over and hit the things we missed! :) That is, if you all stay with me that long!
I had a professor do this in our Postmodern Lit class 16 or so years ago at Baylor! 🤣 I can’t remember the book he cut just now, but I do remember my husband read it (I was a bit of a non-trad rebel student!) and the bit he told me about, I was just fine skipping that book!
Rude awakening. Love it! Agreed! Some of my very favorite books are “banned” books and I relate to Karen’s chapter on the subject in Booked-- maybe also a chapter in On Reading Well? It’s been a while since I’ve read it--something or other about the value of reading provocative literature.
Giggling over the thought of that particular class reading that particular book. Most of that class gave off the “garden party” vibe and the others thoroughly enjoyed Pulp Fiction discussions. It was a fun time and I’m fond of that memory, but that book may have been too much. One excerpt from American Psycho was enough for me and I can’t imagine I’ll pick that one back up.
I’d vote for a visit about The Miller’s Tale of Karen is ever up for it! I thoroughly enjoy each article and the comments. I look forward to the afterburner thoughts and connections they spark in the days or weeks following a read!
I think the film is very smart. But one of my students told me the book is very very explicit and bad and even I wouldn’t want to read it, so I didn’t!
I was a sheltered homeschooled kid who probably would have ended up at an evangelical university if it hadn't been way too expensive for my family. So I first tried reading Chaucer on my own, and when I got to the Miller's Tale I was so bewildered, thinking, "This is literature?!" But that rude, literally, awakening did prepare me to meet some inter and intra-cultural challenges I would encounter the future.
Yes, I realized we have lingered longer on Chaucer than a university syllabus would, but it has been enjoyable and interesting. I have never studied literature formally at any level - I got my high school English credit in writing and my college/university electives in history, music, and languages - so this is fun!
Oh, I’m so glad! I am really enjoying it, too. And now you have me thinking about where I might go with all this in the next year. Since I’m rereading Middlemarch right now, I thought maybe it would be fun to spend some weeks on that. I’ve actually never taught it!
I'm rereading Middlemarch too! I also happened to be reading John Stuart Mill's 'The Subjection of Women' at the same time and the one enhanced the other.
I’m trying to think of a useful lesson from the Milkers tale - maybe wear a head torch if you are climbing up a ladder to seduce the person at the top? Don’t stick your bare bottom out of a window?
It looks to me like you put it in the right place, as it shows up as a reply in my feed. But I also have trouble with my replies going somewhat askew and think it is a hiccup in the Substack technology.
I don't know if he originated it, but I do believe it is the earliest it appears in English literature. I love these nuggets of discovery about language and idioms along the way.
You guys, because it's Christmas, I'm going to give those of you who have asked The Miller's Tale. (And I guess I'm giving it to those who didn't ask for it, too!)
Look for an updated schedule of readings in Tuesday's post!
So! That's where Walter Wangerin got the characters in his Dun Cow trilogy!! Pertelote, Chauntecleer, Russel the Fox - they're all from Chaucer and from this tale in particular. I never knew (or if I knew I'd completely forgotten). As fantasy novels I'm not sure you'll know them, Karen (that's not a criticism, just recalling you said somewhere that it's not a favourite genre of yours), but they're hugely enjoyable and telling in so many ways. Now I need to think about how much of this tale Wangerin actually appropriated, if not just the characters and their names. I guess that's the kind of thing all authors do - taking and refining, taking and reframing.
Oh, also want to say: I hope you do well in the CT awards, the book deserves to do so. I'd put it in my top 10 of books read this year for sure. Bravo!
Richard, I know of Wangerin, of course. He is often mentioned as one of the great contemporary Christian writers. I've never read his stuff, so didn't know this connection! Of course, these fables and fairy tales generally have long histories and many re-tellings, so it seems Wangerin was continuing that. Even Chaucer drew on the French tradition of Reynard the fox.
This is actually one of the things that makes the novel so modern--it was the pioneer in claiming/attempting to explicitly create something "new." In pre-modern literature, that wasn't even a concept.
Thanks for the kind words about my book! The CT contest is final. I was a finalist in my category but did not win. The competition was pretty tough!
Ahhh! Thank you for this lovely breakdown of the tale I cut my Senior-English-Teacher teeth on! This is too well-phrased! I can't even....
"The chickens are us, dear reader.
We, the human beings, are the ones who get so caught up in our high faluitn’ book learnin’ and philosophizin’ and readin’ and writin’ and ‘rithmetic, our dreams and aspirations, our glossy feathers (and our harem of fine hens, one of whom our dear Chauntecleer “feathered” twenty times before 9 a.m. [lines 357-58]) and fine singing voices that we too easily talk too much and see too little."
On my current hiatus from teaching high school English, as a new mom, I now see how little I was seeing as I tried to guide students through literature!
You know what? I had a lot of fun writing that part--and it didn't come to me right away. So, I'm so glad you noted this and found it meaningful! Really glad! Thank you.
I'm so enjoying your weekly writings, even though I don't always get to respond! Congratulations on your CT finalist award! It is so well deserved and I recommend The Evangelical Imagination to all my reader friends.
Virginia, this is so kind! I'm so please do know you are reading and enjoying these writings. And thank you for recommending my book! It helps! :)
*pleased to know. 🙄
Chanticleer is the Canterbury Tale I knew from childhood, as it occurred in prose versions both the old school readers we had and also as in stand-alone illustrated books (Barbara Cooney's Caldecott Award winning illustrated version is the best). So I didn't recall how, uh, earthy the original is. I am accustomed to anthropomorphized animals, but it is a bit surreal when the animals' conversation and personality is anthropomorphized but their barnyard relations are not, such as with that line about Chaunticleer's hens being his sisters and paramours.
When you started this Chaucer series, Karen, my immediate mental question was how you would handle the bawdier stories like the Miller's and Merchant's Tales. Then I realized we weren't doing the whole thing, but I keep wondering, as we have persuaded you to add more tales, if you will eventually get stuck drawing a useful lesson from the Miller :)
Congratulations on your book being short-listed by CT!
Sooooo earthy, haha!
Funny story about the Miller's Tale: When I took my first full-time teaching post 25 years ago at an evangelical university, I got to teach the British Lit survey my first semester. I was so excited! I included in the syllabus all the tales that were in our anthology, which included the Miller's Tale because, well, of course! However, by the time we got to that point in the semester, I had a better sense of my audience (I went to secular schools myself). Fresh from a state university in NY, I didn't know how tender and sheltered they would be. I realized the class before that I could not stand up there and teach that tale to them. So I just told them we were going to skip it and go on to the next thing, as though I just wanted to lighten the load a bit and never mentioned any other reason.
In selecting the tales to cover here, I admit, I considered the Miller's Tale. But having learned from last time, I realized I have a sense of some of my audience, not all, and erred on the side of gentilesse. :)
If I really were teaching a Brit Lit survey, we'd be at Milton by now! Of course, I knew this pace would be slower. And I'm also thinking, if I write these for a year, I can always start over and hit the things we missed! :) That is, if you all stay with me that long!
I had a professor do this in our Postmodern Lit class 16 or so years ago at Baylor! 🤣 I can’t remember the book he cut just now, but I do remember my husband read it (I was a bit of a non-trad rebel student!) and the bit he told me about, I was just fine skipping that book!
Rude awakening. Love it! Agreed! Some of my very favorite books are “banned” books and I relate to Karen’s chapter on the subject in Booked-- maybe also a chapter in On Reading Well? It’s been a while since I’ve read it--something or other about the value of reading provocative literature.
Giggling over the thought of that particular class reading that particular book. Most of that class gave off the “garden party” vibe and the others thoroughly enjoyed Pulp Fiction discussions. It was a fun time and I’m fond of that memory, but that book may have been too much. One excerpt from American Psycho was enough for me and I can’t imagine I’ll pick that one back up.
I’d vote for a visit about The Miller’s Tale of Karen is ever up for it! I thoroughly enjoy each article and the comments. I look forward to the afterburner thoughts and connections they spark in the days or weeks following a read!
You guys are making me want to do The Miller’s Tale!!! Let me think about it, haha!
And I devote a lot to that topic of controversial literature on Booked (and recap on ORW)--great memory!
I am definitely up for doing the Millers tale as the comments afterwards would be so much fun
OK. We are doing it!
It was American Psycho!
I think the film is very smart. But one of my students told me the book is very very explicit and bad and even I wouldn’t want to read it, so I didn’t!
ooooohhh! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I was a sheltered homeschooled kid who probably would have ended up at an evangelical university if it hadn't been way too expensive for my family. So I first tried reading Chaucer on my own, and when I got to the Miller's Tale I was so bewildered, thinking, "This is literature?!" But that rude, literally, awakening did prepare me to meet some inter and intra-cultural challenges I would encounter the future.
Love this story!
Yes, I realized we have lingered longer on Chaucer than a university syllabus would, but it has been enjoyable and interesting. I have never studied literature formally at any level - I got my high school English credit in writing and my college/university electives in history, music, and languages - so this is fun!
Oh, I’m so glad! I am really enjoying it, too. And now you have me thinking about where I might go with all this in the next year. Since I’m rereading Middlemarch right now, I thought maybe it would be fun to spend some weeks on that. I’ve actually never taught it!
Yes! Brilliant idea
I'm rereading Middlemarch too! I also happened to be reading John Stuart Mill's 'The Subjection of Women' at the same time and the one enhanced the other.
I’m trying to think of a useful lesson from the Milkers tale - maybe wear a head torch if you are climbing up a ladder to seduce the person at the top? Don’t stick your bare bottom out of a window?
Aaah I got the comment section wrong again - this was meant to be a reply to witty Holly saying Karen could find lessons from the Millers tale
It looks to me like you put it in the right place, as it shows up as a reply in my feed. But I also have trouble with my replies going somewhat askew and think it is a hiccup in the Substack technology.
Well, I'm going to give this a whirl! :)
Yes!
Oh yes, also it was interesting to observe that it was Chaucer who originated the phrase "Murder will out".
I don't know if he originated it, but I do believe it is the earliest it appears in English literature. I love these nuggets of discovery about language and idioms along the way.
You guys, because it's Christmas, I'm going to give those of you who have asked The Miller's Tale. (And I guess I'm giving it to those who didn't ask for it, too!)
Look for an updated schedule of readings in Tuesday's post!