Could "our best men" be referring to martyrs for the faith? Donne lived right in the middle of the era of Protestant Catholic conflict in Europe.
This sonnet goes so well with Donne's 'Devotions upon emergent occasions', which were written during the severe illness that preceded his own death. Death is a topic that is seldom addressed in modern churches - despite our declared faith that Christ will destroy the last enemy of death - to our great spiritual detriment, I think. Abusive ministers can forget they will one day be called to account, and congregants are left without counsel and comfort for when they face death.
Karen, this study is personally timely. This past week, I saw three specialists who emphasized that I needed some new symptoms investigated as soon as possible. There was an urgency to their words and actions that startled me. As a healthcare professional myself, I know what my symptoms might mean, but I have been trained to not immediately go for the most dramatic diagnosis. It might still be a less dramatic diagnosis, but their urgency was a sharp reminder of my own mortality.
Holly, I’m here at the hospital with my mom awaiting more testing for her. I’m thinking of and praying for you now.
I’m so grateful we can share each other’s journeys, and even traverse with those long gone, such as Donne.
I think you are right about the martyrs! I was trying to think of who else might be in that category and I knew I was missing something. I think that’s exactly right.
I love the metaphysical poets, and especially John Donne. I think he wrote this after experiencing the deaths of several people he loved, including his wife. Anyone living in that time would be intimately acquainted with death, which makes his brash confrontation of Death all the more meaningful. Thanks for covering these in our class, Karen!
That reminds me of the verse in Ecclesiastes which says, "It is better to go to a house of mourning than to a house of feasting." Death teaches us lessons we otherwise miss.
It's been my solemn privilege to conduct probably over 100 funerals, for those with faith in Jesus and those without, and I can only agree wholeheartedly with your words, Karen - death is such an awful reality (those in grief have never needed me to convince them of that) and without the victory of Jesus all would be hopeless. To be able to stand alongside those in deepest sorrow and speak of his victory has been, for me, at the core of pastoral ministry's significance. My sense is that Donne knew that and felt it very deeply.
Dear Professor :-) thank you for offering these virtual 'classes'; I for one am greatly indebted to you as my Elementary Teaching credential never included such content.
I grabbed my copy of The Works of John Donne (The Wordsworth Poetry Library edition) and, after watching the movie clip, took up the poem to read it aloud. (I will have to find the entire film if I can--wow.)
At any rate, I noticed several things: one, there is also a semi colon after 'more' in my copy, not a comma. What a difference that makes.
The other is that although I'd heard the phrase 'death be not proud' innumberable times I had no idea what the poem was actually about; this reading helped--as a Christian I know that death does not have the final word and therefore has no reason to be proud.
...
Thank you for bringing your classroom to the computer--this virtual learning is a gift.
(Thinking of you today in hospital with your mom--I'm sure your presence is a comfort. You'll be in my prayers.)
Oh, I love helping make those connections like that—to discover the source and depth of a now common phrase. Thanks for coming on the ride so that could happen, Jody!
And we had good news about my mom today. We are so grateful! Still a journey ahead but right now is the best case scenario.
Just finished reading the Amy Low book, “The Brave In-Between,” you recommended—excellent, inspiring! Love your recommendations, so the “Cloud of Witnesses” is next! Also, especially enjoyed this lesson on Donne’s “Death, Be Not Proud.”
I watched Wit last week on your recommendation. It’s powerful and beautifully done. I am so thankful for your guidance in this series, deepening my understanding and appreciation for poetry and literature.
Now I really do have to watch “Wit” again! Marvelous. As for the punctuation, my copy of Donne (Grierson’s mid-20th century Oxford edition) has a semicolon in the final line but “death” immediately afterward is not capitalized.
A few days ago I did watch “Wit” again. I want to be cautious here and not write a spoiler for those who haven’t seen it, but in a very late scene there is an ironic twist on her old professor’s putdown of Shakespeare.
This was great. As a good student, I watched the clip, which did give the poem great resonance. I wish I could believe in the poem's faith so powerfully expressed.
💯 for your grade today, David! (I hope you watch the whole film someday. It’s so good.). Faith is a gift, some say, in the sense that we don’t choose it but it is given and received. I feel that way a lot. Like I didn’t choose to believe but do.
When I saw your next lesson topic, I pulled out my copy of The Metaphysical Poets from many years ago. As I watched the clip from Wit, I looked at my book and was pleasantly surprised to see that it was “introduced and edited by Helen Gardner.” Thank you to my favorite English professor, Dr. Christian Weintz, who assigned that edition for us to read when I was an undergraduate student. Thank you, too, Dr. Prior, for your insightful lesson on this poem.
My favorite movie and play, AND actress. :-) I would appreciate a lesson or two on the play. The scene you posted and the "Runaway Bunny" scene are my favorites—beautifully played by both.
The poem is so good. It's like he is looking death straight in the eyes and crying at the same time.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into these; I appreciate it.
Just this week I've been listening to a new EP, Close To Home, by Caroline Cobb that includes a song, Death, You Terrible Thing that sits alongside Donne and your reflections here. It's a very powerful listen, written after her father died but compassing others' sorrows too and culminating in the sufferings and victory of Jesus. Very recommended - as is her song, Find Me In This Cave on the same EP, linked to it in my Substack this week. You can find it on Spotify and other music services.
Could "our best men" be referring to martyrs for the faith? Donne lived right in the middle of the era of Protestant Catholic conflict in Europe.
This sonnet goes so well with Donne's 'Devotions upon emergent occasions', which were written during the severe illness that preceded his own death. Death is a topic that is seldom addressed in modern churches - despite our declared faith that Christ will destroy the last enemy of death - to our great spiritual detriment, I think. Abusive ministers can forget they will one day be called to account, and congregants are left without counsel and comfort for when they face death.
Karen, this study is personally timely. This past week, I saw three specialists who emphasized that I needed some new symptoms investigated as soon as possible. There was an urgency to their words and actions that startled me. As a healthcare professional myself, I know what my symptoms might mean, but I have been trained to not immediately go for the most dramatic diagnosis. It might still be a less dramatic diagnosis, but their urgency was a sharp reminder of my own mortality.
Holly, I’m here at the hospital with my mom awaiting more testing for her. I’m thinking of and praying for you now.
I’m so grateful we can share each other’s journeys, and even traverse with those long gone, such as Donne.
I think you are right about the martyrs! I was trying to think of who else might be in that category and I knew I was missing something. I think that’s exactly right.
Thanks Karen and praying for your mother and you.
Also praying Karen.
I love the metaphysical poets, and especially John Donne. I think he wrote this after experiencing the deaths of several people he loved, including his wife. Anyone living in that time would be intimately acquainted with death, which makes his brash confrontation of Death all the more meaningful. Thanks for covering these in our class, Karen!
Indeed. We are so shielded (or so we think) from death. They had no such illusion. There wisdom is wisdom we need.
That reminds me of the verse in Ecclesiastes which says, "It is better to go to a house of mourning than to a house of feasting." Death teaches us lessons we otherwise miss.
It's been my solemn privilege to conduct probably over 100 funerals, for those with faith in Jesus and those without, and I can only agree wholeheartedly with your words, Karen - death is such an awful reality (those in grief have never needed me to convince them of that) and without the victory of Jesus all would be hopeless. To be able to stand alongside those in deepest sorrow and speak of his victory has been, for me, at the core of pastoral ministry's significance. My sense is that Donne knew that and felt it very deeply.
What holy and hard work, Richard. Truly. Grateful for your ministry.
Thank you, Karen.
Dear Professor :-) thank you for offering these virtual 'classes'; I for one am greatly indebted to you as my Elementary Teaching credential never included such content.
I grabbed my copy of The Works of John Donne (The Wordsworth Poetry Library edition) and, after watching the movie clip, took up the poem to read it aloud. (I will have to find the entire film if I can--wow.)
At any rate, I noticed several things: one, there is also a semi colon after 'more' in my copy, not a comma. What a difference that makes.
The other is that although I'd heard the phrase 'death be not proud' innumberable times I had no idea what the poem was actually about; this reading helped--as a Christian I know that death does not have the final word and therefore has no reason to be proud.
...
Thank you for bringing your classroom to the computer--this virtual learning is a gift.
(Thinking of you today in hospital with your mom--I'm sure your presence is a comfort. You'll be in my prayers.)
Oh, I love helping make those connections like that—to discover the source and depth of a now common phrase. Thanks for coming on the ride so that could happen, Jody!
And we had good news about my mom today. We are so grateful! Still a journey ahead but right now is the best case scenario.
Oh, Karen happy to be on this 'ride' and grateful for the chance to feel a little smarter than I did! Also grateful to God for good news re: your mom.
Just finished reading the Amy Low book, “The Brave In-Between,” you recommended—excellent, inspiring! Love your recommendations, so the “Cloud of Witnesses” is next! Also, especially enjoyed this lesson on Donne’s “Death, Be Not Proud.”
So glad, Terri!
I'd never heard of "Wit." Went on a hunt and found this. Done at UVM. There's an interview with the author after the play.
https://youtu.be/jxrzWhPzhfc?si=zth_anSISQieTOQC
Oh, thanks! Will watch.
I watched Wit last week on your recommendation. It’s powerful and beautifully done. I am so thankful for your guidance in this series, deepening my understanding and appreciation for poetry and literature.
I’m so glad you watched it and appreciated it! Thank you for the kind words and for joining us here!
Now I really do have to watch “Wit” again! Marvelous. As for the punctuation, my copy of Donne (Grierson’s mid-20th century Oxford edition) has a semicolon in the final line but “death” immediately afterward is not capitalized.
Interesting about the capitalization.
I’ve watched Wit at least half a dozen times. 😅
A few days ago I did watch “Wit” again. I want to be cautious here and not write a spoiler for those who haven’t seen it, but in a very late scene there is an ironic twist on her old professor’s putdown of Shakespeare.
I am not remembering that. Thanks for not spoiling it here. Now I’m going to have to watch it one more time!
Just confirms how brilliant a script it is.
Karen,
This was great. As a good student, I watched the clip, which did give the poem great resonance. I wish I could believe in the poem's faith so powerfully expressed.
💯 for your grade today, David! (I hope you watch the whole film someday. It’s so good.). Faith is a gift, some say, in the sense that we don’t choose it but it is given and received. I feel that way a lot. Like I didn’t choose to believe but do.
from your oldest new poetry reader...tears sprang from my eyes. A comma... Thank you, Karen, again.
🤍🤍🤍
When I saw your next lesson topic, I pulled out my copy of The Metaphysical Poets from many years ago. As I watched the clip from Wit, I looked at my book and was pleasantly surprised to see that it was “introduced and edited by Helen Gardner.” Thank you to my favorite English professor, Dr. Christian Weintz, who assigned that edition for us to read when I was an undergraduate student. Thank you, too, Dr. Prior, for your insightful lesson on this poem.
Oh, that is fun and FANTASTIC! What a gift. So glad you are sharing this journey with us here.
My favorite movie and play, AND actress. :-) I would appreciate a lesson or two on the play. The scene you posted and the "Runaway Bunny" scene are my favorites—beautifully played by both.
The poem is so good. It's like he is looking death straight in the eyes and crying at the same time.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into these; I appreciate it.
That final scene always makes me cry—sometimes even sob! 😭
Maybe I will cover it at some point!
Thank you so much for the encouragement. 😊
Just this week I've been listening to a new EP, Close To Home, by Caroline Cobb that includes a song, Death, You Terrible Thing that sits alongside Donne and your reflections here. It's a very powerful listen, written after her father died but compassing others' sorrows too and culminating in the sufferings and victory of Jesus. Very recommended - as is her song, Find Me In This Cave on the same EP, linked to it in my Substack this week. You can find it on Spotify and other music services.
So glad to help fill that gap! That’s why I am doing this series. 😀