As a physician, the description of the treatment of Matthew by Mr. Skill made me laugh: “When Mr. SKILL had seen that that purge was too weak, he made him one to the purpose. 'Twas made ex Carne et Sanguine Christi (you know physicians give strange medicines to their patients); and it was made up into pills with a promise or two, and a proportionable quantity of salt.”
Medical treatments in Bunyan’s day were one part hocus-pocus and nine parts care and compassion. I love Bunyan giving that parenthetical aside, “(you know physicians give strange medicines to their patients)”.
I love that you offer such wonderful professional insight into this section! It is delightful in many ways and you have bro ugh even more delight through your knowledgeable perspective here. Thank you!
A question: It seems from the Owen edition that "gripes" is Bunyan's preferred spelling for "grippe." I would look this up in the OED if my copy weren't in storage: Is our current use of gripe/s etymologically indebted to grippe?
I would certainly gripe, in public on Facebook, if the grippe had a grip (also related?) on me.
I will look it up when I can but I would certainly assume they come from the same word. A “complaint” similarly has a specifically medical connotation in some contexts.
My OED days that grip and gripe both come from a Germanic origin word meaning 'to seize or clutch'. Grippe, which I knew as an archaic word for influenza, is also from a French verb meaning to 'seize', is probably also Germanic in origin - the two languages have existed side-by-side for centuries, and the Normans were originally Germanic speakers from Scandinavia. The OED says 'gripe' can mean 'gastric or intestinal pain, colic'. I remember my mother talking about 'gripe-water' as an old, somewhat dubious, remedy for colic in babies.
In French, the i in Grippe has a double e sound and the final e is silent, and I don't know how to convey the sound of the French r in print. But the archaic English derivative is pronounced and sometimes spelled as 'grip'. I used to come across it in old English writing in phrases like "the grip and ague" (ague being another French origin word meaning chills generally, and malaria specifically) and wonder what it meant, until I learned the French vocabulary for cold or flu.
Oh, good! I knew it from the context of 17th and 18th century British literature, and was pretty certain that was how it was pronounced, which is why I didn’t look it up. But then Jack’s linkage to “gripe” made me second guess. I love language!
It's notable to me that Bunyan switches to Medieval/Catholic Latin to name the medicine. Science and the Roman Catholic Church are the only realms of discourse (magisteria?) where Latin has current use.
I'm not sure I can yet say that I prefer one part over the other. My grad school research had been almost exclusively on part 1, and that makes a kind of sense as I think the span of time between the two parts make them separate and to be considered separately. I do think part 2 shows a change in Bunyan's own temperament: Not only is separate from part 1, it is also separate from Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners. I cannot imagine Mr. Fearing appearing in the 1660s. Writers develop, and evidence of the development is always interesting.
On the other hand . . . I kind of wish I had reviewed part 2 before I had written about the Flatterer. I won't spoil or anticipate what's ahead, but big Yikes!
What I found so interesting in the description of Fearing, is that he was not afraid of outward or physical danger, "his fear was about his acceptance at last". Fearing seems partially like another, maturer, reflection on Bunyan's own journey, who himself was less fearful of outer dangers than his own fear that he could not be saved. There is a little humour in the account of Fearing, with Old Honest declaring, "he was one of the most troublesome pilgrims that I ever met with in all my days"; while Great-Heart's descriptions of how he could barely get Fearing through are gently comical:
"he was himself so chicken-hearted a man...he was afraid to call at the door. So he lay up and down thereabouts... At last I looked out of the window and perceiving a man to be up and down about the door, I went out to him."
Bunyan seems to be laughing a little at his own past fears, and how unreasonable they seem to him now, yet, since Fearing is no doubt a composite, the memory also makes him gentle towards other people's weakness.
Bunyan really is both comical and gentle here, isn’t he? Thank you for drawing our attention to this. It’s a rare combination, and delightful to encounter anywhere but even more in this more serious context of PP.
I feel like I'm reading Bunyan's deconstruction come full circle. It felt like in part 1 he was wrestling with legalism, and in part two he's "relaxed" in his faith and has come to terms with some of his questions. He's more nuanced, and I like it. It's softer. The wrestling and striving are almost gone, and the women are following the path. Still treacherous at times, but it does not feel like an exhausting advance. I also find myself really wanting to live with Prudence and crew, it sounds Peaceful. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm a weeper, and I've come to terms with that in the past year or so.
I was thinking about this book on my way to work just now. I realized that I am John Bunyan. In my younger adult years, I lived in Book One. It just dawned on me that I disliked it because it was a reflection of how I was for so long. I connect with book two because I live more in the "relaxed" faith space. Then I cried, I told you I am a weeper. :-)
As a physician, the description of the treatment of Matthew by Mr. Skill made me laugh: “When Mr. SKILL had seen that that purge was too weak, he made him one to the purpose. 'Twas made ex Carne et Sanguine Christi (you know physicians give strange medicines to their patients); and it was made up into pills with a promise or two, and a proportionable quantity of salt.”
Medical treatments in Bunyan’s day were one part hocus-pocus and nine parts care and compassion. I love Bunyan giving that parenthetical aside, “(you know physicians give strange medicines to their patients)”.
I love that you offer such wonderful professional insight into this section! It is delightful in many ways and you have bro ugh even more delight through your knowledgeable perspective here. Thank you!
A question: It seems from the Owen edition that "gripes" is Bunyan's preferred spelling for "grippe." I would look this up in the OED if my copy weren't in storage: Is our current use of gripe/s etymologically indebted to grippe?
I would certainly gripe, in public on Facebook, if the grippe had a grip (also related?) on me.
I will look it up when I can but I would certainly assume they come from the same word. A “complaint” similarly has a specifically medical connotation in some contexts.
My OED days that grip and gripe both come from a Germanic origin word meaning 'to seize or clutch'. Grippe, which I knew as an archaic word for influenza, is also from a French verb meaning to 'seize', is probably also Germanic in origin - the two languages have existed side-by-side for centuries, and the Normans were originally Germanic speakers from Scandinavia. The OED says 'gripe' can mean 'gastric or intestinal pain, colic'. I remember my mother talking about 'gripe-water' as an old, somewhat dubious, remedy for colic in babies.
Do you know how it’s pronounced, Holly? I should have checked before recording this post!
In French, the i in Grippe has a double e sound and the final e is silent, and I don't know how to convey the sound of the French r in print. But the archaic English derivative is pronounced and sometimes spelled as 'grip'. I used to come across it in old English writing in phrases like "the grip and ague" (ague being another French origin word meaning chills generally, and malaria specifically) and wonder what it meant, until I learned the French vocabulary for cold or flu.
Oh, good! I knew it from the context of 17th and 18th century British literature, and was pretty certain that was how it was pronounced, which is why I didn’t look it up. But then Jack’s linkage to “gripe” made me second guess. I love language!
It's notable to me that Bunyan switches to Medieval/Catholic Latin to name the medicine. Science and the Roman Catholic Church are the only realms of discourse (magisteria?) where Latin has current use.
Interesting!
I'm not sure I can yet say that I prefer one part over the other. My grad school research had been almost exclusively on part 1, and that makes a kind of sense as I think the span of time between the two parts make them separate and to be considered separately. I do think part 2 shows a change in Bunyan's own temperament: Not only is separate from part 1, it is also separate from Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners. I cannot imagine Mr. Fearing appearing in the 1660s. Writers develop, and evidence of the development is always interesting.
On the other hand . . . I kind of wish I had reviewed part 2 before I had written about the Flatterer. I won't spoil or anticipate what's ahead, but big Yikes!
That’s a great point, Jack. They really are separate works and Bunyan does seem to have developed even more as author and believer, too.
What I found so interesting in the description of Fearing, is that he was not afraid of outward or physical danger, "his fear was about his acceptance at last". Fearing seems partially like another, maturer, reflection on Bunyan's own journey, who himself was less fearful of outer dangers than his own fear that he could not be saved. There is a little humour in the account of Fearing, with Old Honest declaring, "he was one of the most troublesome pilgrims that I ever met with in all my days"; while Great-Heart's descriptions of how he could barely get Fearing through are gently comical:
"he was himself so chicken-hearted a man...he was afraid to call at the door. So he lay up and down thereabouts... At last I looked out of the window and perceiving a man to be up and down about the door, I went out to him."
Bunyan seems to be laughing a little at his own past fears, and how unreasonable they seem to him now, yet, since Fearing is no doubt a composite, the memory also makes him gentle towards other people's weakness.
Bunyan really is both comical and gentle here, isn’t he? Thank you for drawing our attention to this. It’s a rare combination, and delightful to encounter anywhere but even more in this more serious context of PP.
I feel like I'm reading Bunyan's deconstruction come full circle. It felt like in part 1 he was wrestling with legalism, and in part two he's "relaxed" in his faith and has come to terms with some of his questions. He's more nuanced, and I like it. It's softer. The wrestling and striving are almost gone, and the women are following the path. Still treacherous at times, but it does not feel like an exhausting advance. I also find myself really wanting to live with Prudence and crew, it sounds Peaceful. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm a weeper, and I've come to terms with that in the past year or so.
Yes! This is such a good description of the contrast. You articulated it so well. So much less exhausting.
I was thinking about this book on my way to work just now. I realized that I am John Bunyan. In my younger adult years, I lived in Book One. It just dawned on me that I disliked it because it was a reflection of how I was for so long. I connect with book two because I live more in the "relaxed" faith space. Then I cried, I told you I am a weeper. :-)
I love this. 🤍
Our Psalm this week in Women's Bible Study is 141. V5 says
"Let a righteous man strike me--it is a kindness; let him rebuke me--it is oil for my head; let my head not refuse it."
What a reminder to rejoice in that valley of humiliation that bears such fruit!
What a perfect verse to illuminate the Valley of Humiliation!