88 Comments

I love that you are continuing this conversation. Thank you! I do write and will always write, but I want the bulk of my work to be in our local community and church. It’s very hard to untangle our desire for meaningful work with the allure (that’s sometimes centered directly at women) of being “someone” online.

Expand full comment
author

Thank you for sharing. I love the sound of the work you are doing. And you are so right about the allure of being online and that it is mostly directed at women. I so wish I could not be online, but my publisher depends on it now. Sigh. Your comment gives me an idea for another word I want to write about in this series (and you didn’t even use it), so thanks! 😃

Expand full comment

"It’s very hard to untangle our desire for meaningful work with the allure (that’s sometimes centered directly at women) of being “someone” online." Yes, and I believe for conservative Christian women, (though I cannot prove it yet), it has something to do with women's restlessness in ministry in the local church—confined to children, women, and secretarial ministries.

Expand full comment

I can’t prove it either but I do think this is correct. All of the women I know who have struggled with this has ministry callings and nowhere in real life to work that out.

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

Yes, I was thinking the same thing, that the internet has provided a place for women's voices to be heard that they do not experience in their own communities, including in the church. In some church settings, I have felt I was not heard because I was a woman, but in others, I felt unheard because people were just too busy to listen - they were kind and generous to me in everything but enough time to fully explain myself. For good or ill, writing on the internet gives people time and space to read other people's words and digest them in a way that the fast paced demands of modern life do not seem to allow in person.

Expand full comment
author

I agree, Mel.

Expand full comment

As a marketing manager for a Christian publisher I do my best to encourage authors to engage in marketing activities that will build their audience (the numbers) while also developing their platform (the work). I truly believe this is the only ethical way to approach this landscape as a Christian, but it is a difficult balance to find.

Expand full comment
author

Tabitha,

Thank you for chiming in! It can be a difficult balance, but I also think marketing can be pretty straightforward as marketing, and that is fine. I'm pretty good at marketing my books and my work, I think, haha! And I am generous, I hope, in helping other good books be known and shared. I do lament that so many beginning authors seem surprised or disappointed that they have to do a lot to market their books. I may address this in my next installment. None of us are Stephen King, haha!

Expand full comment

Karen, what you said about writers marketing their work is one of the main complaints I heard on a Facebook Christian writers page I was in. I too was under the false assumption that the publisher schedules all kinds of events for the writer, like the “book tours” I see in the movies. I should have known better. 😂 It makes me consider if I ever go that route, that I would need the time, space, and energy to promote it, so I need to be sure it is within the realm of possibility for my life.

Expand full comment

Yes, this is still a common misunderstanding, for sure!

Expand full comment

So, publishers do not schedule speakings and book signings and such? That is all left up to the author. Because in the movie "Cheaper by the Dozen," her publisher set up a whole book tour. :-) haha

Expand full comment
author

Ha! So that’s a really good question. Actually it’s excellent. So the short answer is that the bigger name you are, the less you have to do that yourself. If you’re a first time writer getting a small advance, then the publisher is not going to invest much and you have to do a lot of the pity And interviews yourself. That’s why audience is so important. If you’re a medium-level writer, as I am (this is my own made up term!) then a publisher will likely hire a publicist for a limited period of time to help with all of this. But again having a larger audience is where many of the requests come from. So it’s a combination. The notion that getting a publishing contract results in a publisher jetting you all over the country and arranging national interviews is a myth from days long gone by. The democratization of publishing is parallel to the democratization of everything else. A lot more people have access, but that access brings a lot less, generally speaking. it’s similar to the way in which a college degree 50 years ago brought access that a college degree today doesn’t because so many more people are getting them. I hope that makes sense!

Expand full comment
author

Ha! I was using voice and meant “publicity” not “pity,” but maybe it works that way, too? 😅

Expand full comment

Yes, this makes a lot of sense; thank you for explaining. Also, claim that "big name " status Karen ;-)

Expand full comment

I was thinking specifically about paid marketing (as opposed to publicity, which is quite straightforward). I know many writers wonder if they just need to pour money into promotional strategies like Facebook ads, etc. to build an audience large enough to get a publisher’s attention, but that kind of short term thinking almost always over promises and under delivers. Not to mention that many authors don’t have disposable income to spend on those kinds of strategies, which for me prompts questions about whose voices get heard in publishing. Thank you for contributing your experience to this conversation. It is instructive and encouraging for so many!

Expand full comment
author

I do recall now the difference between marketing and PR from college 40 years ago! Oh, the irony of that forgetfulness on a post about definition of terms! Thanks for that crucial clarification!

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

Such good thoughts, as always, Karen. Also, thank you, thank you, thank you for reading and celebrating The Understory. It means so much to me.

Expand full comment
author

🩵🩵🩵

Expand full comment
May 22Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

I landed both a literary agent AND a full-time ministry job at my local church on the very same day. It didn't take me long to loosen my grip on a potential book deal so that I could be more effective in my day job. It was both freeing and empowering to realize that publishing words isn't the only way I can make a difference and join God in God's kingdom-building work!

As always, I love your perspective on writing and publishing. Thank you for sharing your insights with us and for challenging us with such an insightful question!

Expand full comment
author

Well, that’s a neat way to get a nudge from God to steer you the right way!

Thank you for the very kind and encouraging words.

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

Thanks for the insight, Karen. I have not once regretted closing down my social media accounts. I wasn’t a mega blogger, but at the time my memoir was released I had 5400 Facebook friends, 7200 Twitter followers, and 11k+ blog subscribers. I don’t think my publisher even cares that I shut them down.

Now I’m writing fiction. The agents I’ve read say the platform and audience numbers that are meaningful for nonfiction don’t really translate to novel writers.

I’m not planning to recreate my online presence. I do miss regular conversations with you and a couple others. Then again, we’ve got email addresses for a reason. ;-)

Cheers,

Tim

Expand full comment
author

Tim!!! Hello!!! 😀

Thanks for passing that update along. I’m definitely seeking the possibility of getting off social media. Except maybe IG.

Leif Enger is my role model in this. But he definitely doesn’t need social media!

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

((Tim Fall!)) how nice to 'see' you here. Sorry about highjacking your post, Karen.

FWIW I left IG/Facebook a little over a year ago==it was not growing my audience nor bringing people to purchase my books (no one buys poetry). Plus my posts were hardly ever seen by my followers.

If you're interested, I wrote about that leaving here.... https://jodycollins.substack.com/p/my-long-goodbye-to-instagram

after listening to a podcast called Writing Off Social--super informative.

Expand full comment

I buy poetry! Checking out your Substack page now :).

Expand full comment

((thanks, Carmon!))

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

Thank you for that distinction. As a novelist, it's easy to lose that initial love of creating story when it becomes the act of gathering "platform" instead of "audience." When I think of "audience," I think of the young mom with two little girls--a lady I'd never met before--meeting me at a library book signing for my second novel, walking up and hugging me, thanking me for the contemporary romance I'd written. I think of the ladies who stopped me at my uncle's funeral (many miles away in S. Georgia) who read my books because my aunt told them about my book set in South Carolina. These women are not a platform that I climb up on to get their attention, they're my audience. Audience is where it has to be. It's where God's put me, all of us as writers, and where we are sent to make a difference.

Expand full comment
author

What a wonderful perspective and story! Thank you for sharing it. Readers are "not a platform I climb up on to get their attention." Amen.

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

This is so deeply helpful. Thanks, Karen. I don't know why it feels like an epiphany that audience and platform are two different things--but maybe because they get used interchangeably in most short-hand advice I've run across in my attempts to get published.

I'm happy to say that I'm doing (both in writing and in spiritual caregiving, which I guess is my "thing") exactly what I'd love to be doing even if I didn't get paid. And I'm grateful that--at least in the latter--I do get some remuneration. I do wish I could figure out better ways of growing my audience, though...both for writing and for the Pilgrimage.

Expand full comment
author

You are definitely correct that the words have been used loosely and interchangeably. I didn't want to say it in the post, but I do think sometimes that confusion includes those in the publishing end (editors, agents, etc.)

I think many of us are where you are, even in relative terms. Even though I have a large audience, I still care about reaching the audience that I can serve and that wants my words.

I've been on the public platforms for years now, FWIW. Facebook in 2007 and Twitter in 2009, I think? That's a long time.

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

It is a long time. I’ve been on them that long myself, but I’ve been pretty sporadic about how I use them, which probably doesn’t help. And yeah, finding people who really want/need one’s words or whatever else one is offering is a different—and more important—challenge.

Also…I agree that the confusion includes those in the publishing end. That’s mostly where I’ve gotten my terminology. 😬

Expand full comment
author

🫢

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

Karen, I can't speak to your question as I don't consider myself an 'influencer' but a writer (and by God's grace) someone who's been published. I was recently at a conference where a speaker said the definition of the word 'publish' simply means 'to make public,' and therefore when your work it is out in the world it's considered published.

Alas, many writers consider 'published' to mean having their name on a book and the reality of that is a sobering consideration which I'm sure you'll address next week.

Thank you for your voice in the world.

P.S. I am so looking forward to the Donne deep dive!

Expand full comment
author

Yes! When I made my public page on FB and labeled myself as "writer," someone contacted me and said I should put "author." I am an author, but I'm a writer first and having my name published on a book doesn't mean much these days because anyone can do it.

I CANNOT WAIT FOR DONNE!

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

That distinction between writing and publishing took me a long time to discover. I have entire books stored in my Word files that will probably never find an audience! But writing them was deeply meaningful and worthy. The process and joy in the process of setting down words is worthy all on its own.

Expand full comment
author

So true, Liz. And we have to put a lot of words down before we would even want to have some of them published.

Expand full comment
May 24Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

I've heard it's a million or so words before mastery! (So says Ira Glass, anyway. And I see it as a true enough estimate.)

Expand full comment
author

😅

Expand full comment

I feel as if I just was able to take a college level course from you by listening (and reading) these two essays. Thank you. I have long held the belief that you stated that platform and audience are two different things. So often the focus on building some sort of platform has caused many to generate content that is meaningless yet somehow garners likes and followers.

Thank you for writing this because it helped to clarify what I have been thinking about writing, platform building, and publishing. I write because I like to write, and because it does help me to know what I think. I write on-line because I enjoy building a body of work that I hope my children and grandchildren will be like to have after I’m gone, but I really am ok if they aren’t interested. They do ask me questions though, and I answer them by writing. I also write to hopefully bring hope to other grievers or to those who see their lives turned upside down by loss. Writing led me to working on becoming certified in grief and loss studies. That is my answer to the question you asked. Truly, thank you for these two informative and clarifying essays.

Expand full comment
author

Well, the college professor in me just got a big boost from your comment, so thank you. Truly thank you. It means a lot. 😊

Your reasons for writing are wonderful. How rewarding that is in itself? And who knows how many other rewards it will bring.

Expand full comment

Thank you for validating my reasons for writing. Interestingly, for the past few weeks, I have been working on a post that is in my drafts on writing entitled, “Audience.” I hope to finishing the editing on it in the next day or two. I will be embedding your post in it because it fits what I was writing about perfectly. I was writing from the perspective of a high school English teacher. I love that you wrote from the perspective of a college professor.

Expand full comment
author

English teachers unite! I look forward to reading your thoughts!

Expand full comment

LOVE THIS Karen! Thank you for keeping this conversation going. I recently cited you and Mel in an article I am working on. Praying the editors like it:) But I have so appreciated this topic being discussed by many people - I love what Jared Wilson says and I need to get a copy of his book- if all the matters to me is that 10 people read what I write and are encouraged by it and I dont get paid - to me its worthwhile! I write just to process my thoughts! Your advice on that Writers retreat with Rev. Lauren Winner was so good for my soul. Even now when I think of the 200 words on the emotions evoked in me by Trees - I find myself crying. I don't think I will ever many money writing articles but it forced me to look inside myself and ask why and for whom am I doing this. Thank you!!

Expand full comment
author

Thank you, Sherene! Thanks for reading and sharing your healthy perspective. From what I’ve observed you are developing your craft and building your audience in a healthy and organic way. The best way.

Expand full comment

😭 thank you!!! If you have time over the summer, I would love a chat.

Expand full comment
author

Might be able to do so later in the summer.

Expand full comment

That would be wonderful. I will reach out in June after visiting family leaves.

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

Thank you for this, Karen! This was a very helpful piece. I am still very new to Substack and have no idea whether it will lead to anything else (e.g. publishing), or whether I’m writing for its own sake. So far I have enjoyed every minute of it, and my one paid subscriber makes me incredibly happy!

But in terms of other meaningful work, my main trajectory looks like preaching and teaching, so I think this writing thing is mostly for my own enjoyment and to help clarify my thoughts. I’m holding it before God with open hands, and will see what he wants to do with it.

Expand full comment
author

Love this, Sarah. And welcome to Substack! Open hands are so important when we dream and make. My life verse has long been Proverbs 16:9 because we are to plan our way--but tlet the Lord direct our steps. I love that tension.

Expand full comment
May 21Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

It’s so easy to lose sight of the joy and purpose for writing in the first place. Thank you for “untangling” so much of the influencer culture from the actual message that is anchored in “the work”. It inspires me to dig deeper into the opportunities I’ve already had to build a stronger foundation for what I want to say.

Expand full comment
author

This makes me so glad, Millie!

Expand full comment

This is another solid, challenging newsletter on this subject. I never made the distinction between platform and audience until recently. I appreciate your explanation because I was still trying to sort it out.

I used to hate writing because I only wanted to speak. I began writing on Facebook because I knew it would grow my audience. For reasons too long to explain, I discovered a new love for writing and a passion I did not know existed. So here I am on Substack.

It took me six years to say this—if this all disappeared, I'd be fine. I'm working toward becoming a hospice chaplain within the next five years.

Expand full comment
author

I think it was something you said that sparked this in my mind, Mel. I said at the time that you got me thinking!

I am a writer who has to speak to support my writing habit, LOL!

But I am so glad you have discovered this new passion. I'm also glad you are doing some important work that will go unseen by most of the world but that matters so much. Thank you.

Expand full comment

Mel, this has little if anything to do with Karen’s excellent post, but it looks like you and I have a lot in common and I think we should be friends. 😄 I just subscribed to your substack.

Expand full comment

Yeah! Let’s be friends❤️

Expand full comment

Thanks for these wise insights, Karen.

Expand full comment
author

Thanks for reading! And you will be sure to want to tune in next week. 😉

Expand full comment
May 28Liked by Karen Swallow Prior

I couldn’t care for the influencer model. Influencers tend to not want actual discussion, just followers / subscribers / paying customers. Generally I find they lack authenticity and often just repeat what everyone else thinks. The exceptions didn’t choose to be influencers, they chose to do great work somewhere else (even in writing) and that gained them respect to influence. In my mind, this is how it should be - it leads to substance.

Social media destroyed that by making us rely on algorithms, not great work, for influence. I think people might finally be realizing that. I even think the influencer model is going to start suffering some major setbacks. What does annoy me is publishing companies are behind the curve on that one.

Expand full comment
author

I think this analysis is right.

Expand full comment