Losing a parent is a grief unlike any other. As a young adult I watched my parents grieve/mourn as their parents died. When my mom died several years ago after she had slipped into deep dementia I grieved like never before. As a pastor for over 40 years I have conducted multiple ‘memorial’ services, funerals and such often and i find that even for those whom I don’t know well, I still mourn and grieve more deeply than ever before. Perhaps my mom’s death opened within me a capacity to mourn with those who mourn.
It is amazing to me how much I think I understand until I go through it—and then I really understand. Thank you for this note of understanding, Steve. The Lord is always teaching and refining us.
Karen, rejoicing that your mother is with the Lord, but sorrowing at your loss. May the Lord comfort you and your family as you miss your mother's presence in your lives.
Milton's arguments are striking me differently than the first time I read them. I am currently dealing with a difficult situation over a bad book - one too complicated to share here, but one causing weighty concern. Do I wish the book could be banned to protect others? No, I agree with Milton that it would ultimately serve no useful purpose to ban. But I do feel sick at the prospect of innocents (in Milton's sense) being misguided by it.
Milton's focus on the necessity of being able to choose rightly actually plays into his philosophy around Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained. In PL, Adam and Eve choose wrongly. In PR, Milton doesn't write of the Death and Resurrection of Christ, but rather of the Temptation of Christ. I leave the Christian readers here to see the theological issue in Milton seeing our salvation in Christ's choice to reject Satan's suggestions, but to Milton, the ability to choose was paramount. Which makes it ironic that in Areopagitica, Milton mentions Arminius, the famed father of the anti-Calvinist theological position on election, as having been perverted.
Had to chuckle at Milton's joke about voyaging to India - clearly by his day, it was abundantly clear to Europeans that there wasn't a shortcut to India and they were learning to laugh at the pretensions of their recent ancestors.
Your comment on Milton’s primacy on freedom to choose/freedom of conscience is switching on lightbulbs for me. Of course, this was a time when such issues where coming to the forefront politically even more than theologically so it makes sense. But it’s interesting to see how much Milton was a “man of his times” even as he was future-looking.
I do hope we can get into some more nitty gritty about the bounds of “censorship” and its proper place in this series. I put that word in “because a lot of people don’t use the same definition. But I’ll get to that later as well.
Praying for you, your Dad and all your family, asking the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort to draw near you and that you'll know his tender mercies sustaining your hearts. "This is a season of taking one thing at a time and some things not at all" - amen, that is so very wise.
Okay, I have this somewhat settled. At first, I felt a little embarrassed that this speech made little sense to me. I decided to go the audiobook route because my mind was having trouble focusing while sitting and reading. It's better, but what trips me up is all the literary and historical references. Some names I recognize, but to understand the examples in context, I would have to know the works he's talking about. This post focused on the parts of the speech I understood but needed more time to think through. Thank you, Karen, for helping with the process. Practically, the speech makes sense to me, and if I can understand it practically, that's good enough for me. :-) I especially resonate with the last sentence of the final quote.
When I was younger and fresh out of legalism, I could be counted among the "restraint of ten vicious" people. I was judgmental. I've been growing ever so slowly for the past 15 years, and it feels good to be on the"growth and contemplating" side.
Also, now that I'm reading books that are not only Christian, I've found it helpful to read things that don't line up with my way of life or theology. Strangely enough, they solidify my faith in Jesus and my walk as a believer more than a Christian self-help book.
Mel, we are all tripped up by the many allusions. I need to dig out my annotated version of the text now that I think about it! They do hinder reading somewhat but I think as long as we read with awareness—“oh, here’s an allusion now to someone I’m not familiar with. I can look it up or just move on for now, knowing Milton and his readers understood”—then we can get what we can (and that’s a lot). It’s fine—actually good—to read something so challenging that we know that we will only get a fraction of it. And know that with each re-reading (should we decide to return to it), get more.
(Think about the books you’ve read that didn’t give you anything new or had nothing you needed to look up … 😬)
I’ve read so many of those books (haha), I know SO MUCH about Amish life from those Christian romance novels 😜. Diving in and looking up, is a good part of the learning process, my problem is time *sigh*. I did listen to the excepts you read again on my way to work and picked up a bit more. So I’m thankful for that morning commute. Thanks for the encouragement.
Karen, I loved reading about your mom in her obituary and am so sorry for your loss. I'll continue praying for y'all as you grieve and prepare for the service.
My prayers have been with you these past weeks, and will continue. Grief experienced turns out to be very much more difficult and lasting than grief observed from afar.
Milton echoes Peter and James when he says that we are purified by trial and that our virtue grows from the experience of confronting and being tested by evil. (And, I realize that I do read promiscuously, moving from one area of interest to another, often as a result of the most recent book I've read.)
Milton says: "God, who, though he command us temperance, justice, continence, yet pours out before us, even to a profuseness, all desirable things, and gives us minds that can wander beyond all limit and satiety." That last idea caught my attention. God has given us "minds that can wander beyond all limit and satiety." This causes me to wonder about the wisdom of Milton's recommendation that we have the freedom to read bad books. In his England, which was so strongly imbued with Christian teaching and Christian morality, I think most people had baked into their hearts a sense of where the limits to virtue lay. But in America today more and more folks are wandering beyond those limits and seem to be developing an insatiable appetite throwing off traditional ideas of virtue. Banning books is not the answer, but a laissez-faire anything goes moral ethic is not great, either. So I'm pondering all of this.
Charlie, what you say about grief experienced vs grief observed is so insightful and true.
And what you say about Milton’s context vs ours is very helpful! I agree: the differences are significant. And laissez-faire is not the answer. Thanks for this thought. I hope to dig deeper I to these questions next week.
Dear Karen, this is the first I've read of your mother's passing... what a sweet and tender and difficult time. May Jesus be close to you all. P.S. the photo of Eva next to your mother's bed is priceless.
Losing a parent is a grief unlike any other. As a young adult I watched my parents grieve/mourn as their parents died. When my mom died several years ago after she had slipped into deep dementia I grieved like never before. As a pastor for over 40 years I have conducted multiple ‘memorial’ services, funerals and such often and i find that even for those whom I don’t know well, I still mourn and grieve more deeply than ever before. Perhaps my mom’s death opened within me a capacity to mourn with those who mourn.
It is amazing to me how much I think I understand until I go through it—and then I really understand. Thank you for this note of understanding, Steve. The Lord is always teaching and refining us.
Karen, rejoicing that your mother is with the Lord, but sorrowing at your loss. May the Lord comfort you and your family as you miss your mother's presence in your lives.
Milton's arguments are striking me differently than the first time I read them. I am currently dealing with a difficult situation over a bad book - one too complicated to share here, but one causing weighty concern. Do I wish the book could be banned to protect others? No, I agree with Milton that it would ultimately serve no useful purpose to ban. But I do feel sick at the prospect of innocents (in Milton's sense) being misguided by it.
Milton's focus on the necessity of being able to choose rightly actually plays into his philosophy around Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained. In PL, Adam and Eve choose wrongly. In PR, Milton doesn't write of the Death and Resurrection of Christ, but rather of the Temptation of Christ. I leave the Christian readers here to see the theological issue in Milton seeing our salvation in Christ's choice to reject Satan's suggestions, but to Milton, the ability to choose was paramount. Which makes it ironic that in Areopagitica, Milton mentions Arminius, the famed father of the anti-Calvinist theological position on election, as having been perverted.
Had to chuckle at Milton's joke about voyaging to India - clearly by his day, it was abundantly clear to Europeans that there wasn't a shortcut to India and they were learning to laugh at the pretensions of their recent ancestors.
Thank you for your kind condolences, Holly.
Your comment on Milton’s primacy on freedom to choose/freedom of conscience is switching on lightbulbs for me. Of course, this was a time when such issues where coming to the forefront politically even more than theologically so it makes sense. But it’s interesting to see how much Milton was a “man of his times” even as he was future-looking.
I do hope we can get into some more nitty gritty about the bounds of “censorship” and its proper place in this series. I put that word in “because a lot of people don’t use the same definition. But I’ll get to that later as well.
Praying for you, your Dad and all your family, asking the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort to draw near you and that you'll know his tender mercies sustaining your hearts. "This is a season of taking one thing at a time and some things not at all" - amen, that is so very wise.
Thank you, Richard. God has offered much comfort even amid the grief.
I am so very sorry to hear that your mother had died . Thank you for carrying on with the substack
Thank you, Miranda. Continuing to write here has been a solace. 🤍
Okay, I have this somewhat settled. At first, I felt a little embarrassed that this speech made little sense to me. I decided to go the audiobook route because my mind was having trouble focusing while sitting and reading. It's better, but what trips me up is all the literary and historical references. Some names I recognize, but to understand the examples in context, I would have to know the works he's talking about. This post focused on the parts of the speech I understood but needed more time to think through. Thank you, Karen, for helping with the process. Practically, the speech makes sense to me, and if I can understand it practically, that's good enough for me. :-) I especially resonate with the last sentence of the final quote.
When I was younger and fresh out of legalism, I could be counted among the "restraint of ten vicious" people. I was judgmental. I've been growing ever so slowly for the past 15 years, and it feels good to be on the"growth and contemplating" side.
Also, now that I'm reading books that are not only Christian, I've found it helpful to read things that don't line up with my way of life or theology. Strangely enough, they solidify my faith in Jesus and my walk as a believer more than a Christian self-help book.
I continue to pray for you and your family. <3
Mel, we are all tripped up by the many allusions. I need to dig out my annotated version of the text now that I think about it! They do hinder reading somewhat but I think as long as we read with awareness—“oh, here’s an allusion now to someone I’m not familiar with. I can look it up or just move on for now, knowing Milton and his readers understood”—then we can get what we can (and that’s a lot). It’s fine—actually good—to read something so challenging that we know that we will only get a fraction of it. And know that with each re-reading (should we decide to return to it), get more.
(Think about the books you’ve read that didn’t give you anything new or had nothing you needed to look up … 😬)
I’ve read so many of those books (haha), I know SO MUCH about Amish life from those Christian romance novels 😜. Diving in and looking up, is a good part of the learning process, my problem is time *sigh*. I did listen to the excepts you read again on my way to work and picked up a bit more. So I’m thankful for that morning commute. Thanks for the encouragement.
Oh, yes—time is the problem. But even if we don’t look them up, we learn something!
Karen, I loved reading about your mom in her obituary and am so sorry for your loss. I'll continue praying for y'all as you grieve and prepare for the service.
Thank you so much, Kate.
My prayers have been with you these past weeks, and will continue. Grief experienced turns out to be very much more difficult and lasting than grief observed from afar.
Milton echoes Peter and James when he says that we are purified by trial and that our virtue grows from the experience of confronting and being tested by evil. (And, I realize that I do read promiscuously, moving from one area of interest to another, often as a result of the most recent book I've read.)
Milton says: "God, who, though he command us temperance, justice, continence, yet pours out before us, even to a profuseness, all desirable things, and gives us minds that can wander beyond all limit and satiety." That last idea caught my attention. God has given us "minds that can wander beyond all limit and satiety." This causes me to wonder about the wisdom of Milton's recommendation that we have the freedom to read bad books. In his England, which was so strongly imbued with Christian teaching and Christian morality, I think most people had baked into their hearts a sense of where the limits to virtue lay. But in America today more and more folks are wandering beyond those limits and seem to be developing an insatiable appetite throwing off traditional ideas of virtue. Banning books is not the answer, but a laissez-faire anything goes moral ethic is not great, either. So I'm pondering all of this.
Charlie, what you say about grief experienced vs grief observed is so insightful and true.
And what you say about Milton’s context vs ours is very helpful! I agree: the differences are significant. And laissez-faire is not the answer. Thanks for this thought. I hope to dig deeper I to these questions next week.
Dear Karen, this is the first I've read of your mother's passing... what a sweet and tender and difficult time. May Jesus be close to you all. P.S. the photo of Eva next to your mother's bed is priceless.
Thank you so much, Jody.