In the shadow of the double entendre of this question hides the shame of those who conceal their names and faces to mock age as they infantilise the women around them, yes, even as they grow fat and old without care in their own male bodies.
Dr Nikalya Reize writes about the tendency to get stuck in the archetype of maiden or mother in one's imagination of women, and says that the glorification of the process of turning into the deep-lined face of wisdom has been stunted by such pedophile aestethics as you mention here.
Take heart, if you are our Mother, then all of the benefits of having a thousand, thousand children are yours.
Such vile comments - they'll have to explain those "idle" words before the Throne one day. Their wives may not want to know if they look at porn either; sometimes women are so insecure in themselves, so dependent on their husbands that they cannot face the truth.
Being in ATI meant the fashions of the 1990s and 2000s were mostly irrelevant to me, but we were well aware of the danger of perverts - the mid-1990s trial of one of Canada's most sickening serial killer cases, in which teen girls were the victims, was televised (very controversially), but it made both parents and teens aware of the potential of predators. In our rural community, most teens girls that I remember from the era wore jeans and baggy shirts - sadly, those who dressed more provocatively were often stigmatized. By my late teens in the early 2000s, I mostly wore dark, a-line cut, ankle-length skirts, which I sewed myself, with fashionable blouses and shirts - black was my preferred colour.
Karen, I get the impression from photos that you aren't tall. I am quite short - just a couple inches over 5 foot - and in my late teens and early twenties, I was fairly slim. Although I was mostly oblivious to it at the time, I attracted attention. My mother later said she often noticed men looking after me in the store (she says she saw admiration, rather than leering in their faces). I recall going to my college locker and overhearing a nearby girl tell one of the boys to whom she was talking to stop staring at other girls - since I was the only other female in the area, I knew she must be referring to me.
Now I am middle-aged and my frame is spreading no matter how I eat or how much I exercise. I am not surprised - in build and facial structure, I resemble my materlineal great-grandmother, who was also quite trim when she was younger but became very stout by middle-age. When I see pictures of her in middle-age, I see a strong woman, one who was sent to work as a servant at the age of twelve, who married a wounded and permanently damaged WWI veteran, who held her family together through the Great Depression, who endured the sorrow of losing her two youngest children in infancy and her eldest son in WWII. I am proud to carry her genetics.
Those who disparage the normal human appearance of middle-aged women in comment sections are pathetic cowards who will never know the blessing of having a such a strong woman standing at their side through life.
Holly, my mother and her mother and her mother—all from Maine via Nova Scotia—were short and stout (by the time I knew them). My body carries these generations forth. I am 5’3”. I have the short frame and the genes to contend with. At this age, I want to be healthy and strong.
You are exactly right about such cowardly men. I just saw today one from this crowd saying a certain famous woman shouldn’t be wearing pantsuits. Sigh.
The thing that seems so strange now is we didn’t realise how wrong ‘heroin chic’ was in the 90s. Kate Moss, aged 15, was photographed on a bed in the tatler and it was seen as ‘edgy’ rather than wrong
Same! I was the tall, skinny girl in the late 80’s and early 90’s pressured to look like Kate Moss. My friends called me Twiggy. By age 15 many of the men in my life (mostly church men) were always telling me I should go into modeling. I carried a sick feeling I couldn’t explain through my adolescence and early adulthood. I didn’t want men to think I should be on a runway when i was 15. I wanted to be honored. I didn’t have words for the way I felt sort of pimped. In fact as I reflect back on it now, the men I felt honored by were school teachers who gave me a “self-manager” award, and a youth minister who asked me to lead a drama club. What you’ve written here Karen explains so much of the sick, gut feeling, I had during my teen years.
Yes, although I think the trendsetters were pushing the enveloped before then: Jodie Foster in the 1970s, Brooke Shields in the 1980s, Natalie Portman in the 1990s were are cast as young teen actors in very questionable roles in films that were popular and critically acclaimed.
Those of us working with abuse victims in the 80's and 90's were very aware of what you are referring to and tried to sound the alarm. Advertisements featuring sexualized children were everywhere. People in general seem more aware now. The advertising world is more cautious. It's all moved underground to the internet, I suppose. I'm so sorry that as a public figure and a woman clothed in strength and dignity, you have to tolerate the juvenile comments of shallow trolls. Your courage is inspiring.
I am from the 60s "twiggy" generation. At 5 feet and 95 pounds, I longed to be tall like all the magazine models. No such luck, but like most women, as I aged, I did slowly put on the weight. No diet or exercise seemed to slow down the 5 pounds per decade, so now my shape is like my sweet grandmother's. Now I think of these pounds as preventive against the osteoporosis my mother suffered from, and try to be thankful for the body God has given me.
I am so horrified that you and other women have been scrutinized and had to endure such unkindness. I long for the day when Christ appears and we all see each other as His daughters and sons, not sexualized objects, when we love one another for who we are and for the light He has placed in us.
Thank you for sharing this. I feel/see both my mother and my grandmother in my own body. (I posted a picture of us on Facebook the other day showing other similarities.
I am short and growing rounder by the year. Such were my maternal ancestors.
And for whatever it’s worth, I am coming to not only understand, but also see, that many of the people who harm the most - even when it seems they get away with it unpunished - are shriveling into meaninglessness. Like the character in “The Great Divorce” that gets smaller and smaller as he grumbles and complains until he shrivels into nothingness, these men will make themselves smaller and less significant with each measure of meanness until they diminish themselves into oblivion. It’s pathetic, really. This is as close to heaven as they will ever get and they are as close to hell as we will ever need to be.
Stay your beautiful self and keep writing our collective laments about the wickedness that hides behind Bible verses and Sunday schools (and seminary programs). You help so many find their own voices. You’re not old enough to be silent yet. ;-)
You wrote about this far more graciously than I could manage to. Thanks for your honesty, and like I find myself saying so often lately, this ought not to be so.
As a friend, it hurts me to see what people say about you, but your concluding statement gave me chills because of the truth and power behind it. You have persevered, and God sees and hears you - and them. He will repay.
I'm really sorry, Karen. "For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all." Here's my translation: Judgment will include a public, humiliating pantsing of these men's cruelty in front of their wives and the communities that celebrated them.
I get so angry reading about this, but I’m appreciative for your continued courage to bring awareness and call out such vile behavior. I am sorry you’ve had to endure this kind of abuse. I too rest in knowing that all will be held accountable for their words and deeds. Grateful your life was spared in the accident! I think you’re the best Karen! 💛
Paul in concluding the first chapter of Colossians says, "Him we proclaim, warning every man, and teaching every man with all wisdom, that we may present every man mature in Christ." In in its simplest form the problem with men is immaturity modeled powerfully by Donald Trump. Some say that politics only reflects the culture and in this case I think that is correct: The culture is also very immature and is reflected in a leadership that is divisive, angry and proficient in the use of foul language. As followers of Jesus we are called to grow, to mature into the likeness of Jesus. As we grow in His likeness we will be people who reconcile, never let the sun go down on our anger, and are careful in the words we speak knowing the day of accounting for those words is coming.
That type of talk in men reminds me of boys in the middle school, high school, and college age. Not all behaved this way but many did. Sometimes they mature out of it and sometimes they don’t. It’s a bad habit. I’ve also heard women critique men in this way. That is also a bad habit.
In the shadow of the double entendre of this question hides the shame of those who conceal their names and faces to mock age as they infantilise the women around them, yes, even as they grow fat and old without care in their own male bodies.
Dr Nikalya Reize writes about the tendency to get stuck in the archetype of maiden or mother in one's imagination of women, and says that the glorification of the process of turning into the deep-lined face of wisdom has been stunted by such pedophile aestethics as you mention here.
Take heart, if you are our Mother, then all of the benefits of having a thousand, thousand children are yours.
So beautiful, Daniel. Amen.
Such vile comments - they'll have to explain those "idle" words before the Throne one day. Their wives may not want to know if they look at porn either; sometimes women are so insecure in themselves, so dependent on their husbands that they cannot face the truth.
Being in ATI meant the fashions of the 1990s and 2000s were mostly irrelevant to me, but we were well aware of the danger of perverts - the mid-1990s trial of one of Canada's most sickening serial killer cases, in which teen girls were the victims, was televised (very controversially), but it made both parents and teens aware of the potential of predators. In our rural community, most teens girls that I remember from the era wore jeans and baggy shirts - sadly, those who dressed more provocatively were often stigmatized. By my late teens in the early 2000s, I mostly wore dark, a-line cut, ankle-length skirts, which I sewed myself, with fashionable blouses and shirts - black was my preferred colour.
Karen, I get the impression from photos that you aren't tall. I am quite short - just a couple inches over 5 foot - and in my late teens and early twenties, I was fairly slim. Although I was mostly oblivious to it at the time, I attracted attention. My mother later said she often noticed men looking after me in the store (she says she saw admiration, rather than leering in their faces). I recall going to my college locker and overhearing a nearby girl tell one of the boys to whom she was talking to stop staring at other girls - since I was the only other female in the area, I knew she must be referring to me.
Now I am middle-aged and my frame is spreading no matter how I eat or how much I exercise. I am not surprised - in build and facial structure, I resemble my materlineal great-grandmother, who was also quite trim when she was younger but became very stout by middle-age. When I see pictures of her in middle-age, I see a strong woman, one who was sent to work as a servant at the age of twelve, who married a wounded and permanently damaged WWI veteran, who held her family together through the Great Depression, who endured the sorrow of losing her two youngest children in infancy and her eldest son in WWII. I am proud to carry her genetics.
Those who disparage the normal human appearance of middle-aged women in comment sections are pathetic cowards who will never know the blessing of having a such a strong woman standing at their side through life.
Holly, my mother and her mother and her mother—all from Maine via Nova Scotia—were short and stout (by the time I knew them). My body carries these generations forth. I am 5’3”. I have the short frame and the genes to contend with. At this age, I want to be healthy and strong.
You are exactly right about such cowardly men. I just saw today one from this crowd saying a certain famous woman shouldn’t be wearing pantsuits. Sigh.
The thing that seems so strange now is we didn’t realise how wrong ‘heroin chic’ was in the 90s. Kate Moss, aged 15, was photographed on a bed in the tatler and it was seen as ‘edgy’ rather than wrong
I don’t think I realized she was that young…ugh.
Same! I was the tall, skinny girl in the late 80’s and early 90’s pressured to look like Kate Moss. My friends called me Twiggy. By age 15 many of the men in my life (mostly church men) were always telling me I should go into modeling. I carried a sick feeling I couldn’t explain through my adolescence and early adulthood. I didn’t want men to think I should be on a runway when i was 15. I wanted to be honored. I didn’t have words for the way I felt sort of pimped. In fact as I reflect back on it now, the men I felt honored by were school teachers who gave me a “self-manager” award, and a youth minister who asked me to lead a drama club. What you’ve written here Karen explains so much of the sick, gut feeling, I had during my teen years.
Yes, although I think the trendsetters were pushing the enveloped before then: Jodie Foster in the 1970s, Brooke Shields in the 1980s, Natalie Portman in the 1990s were are cast as young teen actors in very questionable roles in films that were popular and critically acclaimed.
Those of us working with abuse victims in the 80's and 90's were very aware of what you are referring to and tried to sound the alarm. Advertisements featuring sexualized children were everywhere. People in general seem more aware now. The advertising world is more cautious. It's all moved underground to the internet, I suppose. I'm so sorry that as a public figure and a woman clothed in strength and dignity, you have to tolerate the juvenile comments of shallow trolls. Your courage is inspiring.
It’s so interesting how more of us can see now what was already in front of us. Culture works that way—makes blind spots.
Thank you for such kind words, Kevie. 🤍
I am from the 60s "twiggy" generation. At 5 feet and 95 pounds, I longed to be tall like all the magazine models. No such luck, but like most women, as I aged, I did slowly put on the weight. No diet or exercise seemed to slow down the 5 pounds per decade, so now my shape is like my sweet grandmother's. Now I think of these pounds as preventive against the osteoporosis my mother suffered from, and try to be thankful for the body God has given me.
I am so horrified that you and other women have been scrutinized and had to endure such unkindness. I long for the day when Christ appears and we all see each other as His daughters and sons, not sexualized objects, when we love one another for who we are and for the light He has placed in us.
Thank you for sharing this. I feel/see both my mother and my grandmother in my own body. (I posted a picture of us on Facebook the other day showing other similarities.
I am short and growing rounder by the year. Such were my maternal ancestors.
Famished, friend. Famished. For so much.
And for whatever it’s worth, I am coming to not only understand, but also see, that many of the people who harm the most - even when it seems they get away with it unpunished - are shriveling into meaninglessness. Like the character in “The Great Divorce” that gets smaller and smaller as he grumbles and complains until he shrivels into nothingness, these men will make themselves smaller and less significant with each measure of meanness until they diminish themselves into oblivion. It’s pathetic, really. This is as close to heaven as they will ever get and they are as close to hell as we will ever need to be.
Stay your beautiful self and keep writing our collective laments about the wickedness that hides behind Bible verses and Sunday schools (and seminary programs). You help so many find their own voices. You’re not old enough to be silent yet. ;-)
Yes, yes, yes: yes to their shriveling and my refusal to be silent. 💪
Will be emailing you soon about a catch-up.
FAMISHED
So so sad to see these men act in such unmanly ways. Awful.
FAMISHED
“My mockers come from just one little corner of the internet, one peopled mainly by people who call themselves Christians.”…😢😢😢
You wrote about this far more graciously than I could manage to. Thanks for your honesty, and like I find myself saying so often lately, this ought not to be so.
Thank you for “seeing” and standing with me.
As a friend, it hurts me to see what people say about you, but your concluding statement gave me chills because of the truth and power behind it. You have persevered, and God sees and hears you - and them. He will repay.
Thank you, friend.
This is incredibly powerful, Karen. Thank you for writing it.
Thank you, Gina.
I'm really sorry, Karen. "For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all." Here's my translation: Judgment will include a public, humiliating pantsing of these men's cruelty in front of their wives and the communities that celebrated them.
I pray for repentance before that time. But God will deal with them either way.
I get so angry reading about this, but I’m appreciative for your continued courage to bring awareness and call out such vile behavior. I am sorry you’ve had to endure this kind of abuse. I too rest in knowing that all will be held accountable for their words and deeds. Grateful your life was spared in the accident! I think you’re the best Karen! 💛
Grateful for you, Kathleen! Great to see you last night! 😊
Paul in concluding the first chapter of Colossians says, "Him we proclaim, warning every man, and teaching every man with all wisdom, that we may present every man mature in Christ." In in its simplest form the problem with men is immaturity modeled powerfully by Donald Trump. Some say that politics only reflects the culture and in this case I think that is correct: The culture is also very immature and is reflected in a leadership that is divisive, angry and proficient in the use of foul language. As followers of Jesus we are called to grow, to mature into the likeness of Jesus. As we grow in His likeness we will be people who reconcile, never let the sun go down on our anger, and are careful in the words we speak knowing the day of accounting for those words is coming.
So well said. Maturing is, in large part, a choice.
Yuck! Sorry you’ve had such things said.
Thank you!
That type of talk in men reminds me of boys in the middle school, high school, and college age. Not all behaved this way but many did. Sometimes they mature out of it and sometimes they don’t. It’s a bad habit. I’ve also heard women critique men in this way. That is also a bad habit.
I’m 62. I too am 5’3 ☺️
😊
It is juvenile and ridiculous. It’s sad that it’s kind of an industry now, too.