What a good reminder and excellent summary and commentary of some of the most important parts of the book. And this, “The remedy for all this, Prior suggests, is to have the imagination to see past the trappings of our culture and to experience Christ: “to be caught up with Christ, in Christ” and to “be filled with a love” that is “powerful enough to love that person we would otherwise despise. It is to love the kingdom of God more than all the kingdoms of this world. It is to count all human empires as dirt, all our pretty platforms and performances as dung.” 🥹🥹 That chapter. Shew!
"They have substituted sentimentality and emotional experiences for virtue formation."
This has been my experience as well.
As a charismatic/Evangelical for over 50 years, saved in the Jesus movement, the last 5 to 8 years have reflected a pattern that disturbs me as well, and I couldn't quite nail it.
Changing how and where we worship right now has not been a choice I can make, and so I push back when I can.
It's hard to speak out against the assumptions we've made about what Jesus said, especially when people are entrenched the way they are. But the lack of formation and the focus instead on getting everybody saved is unsettling...
Thank you for saying all of this, Karen. May God widen the reach of your words.
I understand, Jody. God can use us where we are. I pray he uses you. I think he is revealing much these days and something beautiful will come in the end.
It's a perceptive review of two excellent books. I read them both last summer, Russel's first and then yours Karen, and although living the other side of the pond they both had significant things to say that I found applicable. The point Williams makes from yours, that "American evangelicals often find it difficult to discern the difference between gospel truth and the inherited assumptions of evangelical culture" is definitely transferable into other contexts, something that I feel I very much need to be aware of and test myself by.
I'm sure that to make that case and make it so well must have taken its toll, Karen, even if it was also cathartic to a degree. For a little while I've been sort-of writing something* that is definitely counter-evangelical-church-culture, having become convinced the issue in question needs more thought, but it's so taken-for-granted that to question it feels like letting the side down - and it's not even close to the kind of weighty issues you wrestle with in your book.
(*Flogging the Wrong Horse: Why You Need To Stop Nagging Your Congregation Into Doing Evangelism)
Karen, Fred and I read your book and loved it! Last night we watched Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Afterwards, we discussed the movie’s staying power. Because it was an adaptation of Tolkien’s series, a whole lot of Christians who are now middle aged adults viewed it multiple times. Could these movies have inspired the notion that we need a “king” to lead us out of evil and turmoil and back to a time of peace. Your thoughts? Laverne
Laverne! Truthfully, I have thought this for a long time but I didn’t dare say it because I know how much TLOR is beloved. But this has indeed been a theory of mine for a while.
I really think this is a factor in a lot of what we are seeing, especially from young men who are Extremely Online. As you implied, I kind of get at this subtly in my book. That was as far as I wanted to go there.
"Prior and Moore acknowledge that the evangelical crisis is massive. But the gospel is greater still." Excellent review.
Amen.
What a good reminder and excellent summary and commentary of some of the most important parts of the book. And this, “The remedy for all this, Prior suggests, is to have the imagination to see past the trappings of our culture and to experience Christ: “to be caught up with Christ, in Christ” and to “be filled with a love” that is “powerful enough to love that person we would otherwise despise. It is to love the kingdom of God more than all the kingdoms of this world. It is to count all human empires as dirt, all our pretty platforms and performances as dung.” 🥹🥹 That chapter. Shew!
I needed those words for myself, truth be told. Shew.
"They have substituted sentimentality and emotional experiences for virtue formation."
This has been my experience as well.
As a charismatic/Evangelical for over 50 years, saved in the Jesus movement, the last 5 to 8 years have reflected a pattern that disturbs me as well, and I couldn't quite nail it.
Changing how and where we worship right now has not been a choice I can make, and so I push back when I can.
It's hard to speak out against the assumptions we've made about what Jesus said, especially when people are entrenched the way they are. But the lack of formation and the focus instead on getting everybody saved is unsettling...
Thank you for saying all of this, Karen. May God widen the reach of your words.
I understand, Jody. God can use us where we are. I pray he uses you. I think he is revealing much these days and something beautiful will come in the end.
It's a perceptive review of two excellent books. I read them both last summer, Russel's first and then yours Karen, and although living the other side of the pond they both had significant things to say that I found applicable. The point Williams makes from yours, that "American evangelicals often find it difficult to discern the difference between gospel truth and the inherited assumptions of evangelical culture" is definitely transferable into other contexts, something that I feel I very much need to be aware of and test myself by.
I'm sure that to make that case and make it so well must have taken its toll, Karen, even if it was also cathartic to a degree. For a little while I've been sort-of writing something* that is definitely counter-evangelical-church-culture, having become convinced the issue in question needs more thought, but it's so taken-for-granted that to question it feels like letting the side down - and it's not even close to the kind of weighty issues you wrestle with in your book.
(*Flogging the Wrong Horse: Why You Need To Stop Nagging Your Congregation Into Doing Evangelism)
Thank you for the empathetic words, Richard. Your insight is true.
What you are working on sounds very intriguing…I have thoughts on that (sounds similar to yours.). Keep us posted!
My work on it is pretty intermittent but if it ever amounts to much I'll be sure to let you know :)
🙏🙂
Karen, Fred and I read your book and loved it! Last night we watched Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Afterwards, we discussed the movie’s staying power. Because it was an adaptation of Tolkien’s series, a whole lot of Christians who are now middle aged adults viewed it multiple times. Could these movies have inspired the notion that we need a “king” to lead us out of evil and turmoil and back to a time of peace. Your thoughts? Laverne
Laverne! Truthfully, I have thought this for a long time but I didn’t dare say it because I know how much TLOR is beloved. But this has indeed been a theory of mine for a while.
The Marvel series and Reacher series also contributed on the secular side. The filmmaker's successful story telling has a lot of reach.
I really think this is a factor in a lot of what we are seeing, especially from young men who are Extremely Online. As you implied, I kind of get at this subtly in my book. That was as far as I wanted to go there.