Evangelicals begin our misinterpretation with the creation of Eve. We believe in hierarchy and since Adam came first, well - isn’t it obvious who should be in charge? Paul, of course, grew up in a patriarchal culture and did not see his ministry as one of changing that aspect of Jewish culture. When Protestants decided to revolt - where there was Mary, honored as the Mother of God. Something had to be done and Mary was reduced to something like the average pregnant teenager. An interesting story comes from America’s west. White women were often captured bu the Indian tribes to provide wives for the men since the army had the habit of killing women and children, much easier targets. But when these white women were liberated, a number didn’t want to return to their “privilege” existence as wives of settlers. They found much more respect among these “savages” than they found in their homes back in the settlement. Right now in my church we have one pastor who has stepped aside to determine if he wants to stay in ministry and another in the hospital with a bleeding ulcer. So much pressure on the men to perform while their wives are almost totally left out of the picture. But, of course, there would be something like a massive walk-out if a woman ever ascended the pulpit to preach. But might those pastor’s wives have some encouraging words for the wives in the congregation who believe they must submit?
I can’t wait to read the book. This battle against women within the evangelical church is disturbing and maddening. I think about single women who served as missionaries in dangerous places. Places mission boards didn’t want to send families because of danger. Yet, women went to serve God and fulfill their call.
I cannot wait to read this book. I’m so tired of being in churches where the wives of pastors are the only women who can lead or teach anything (regardless of spiritual gifting), while there are plenty of lay women who are spiritually gifted in these areas left on the sidelines. God-given gifts are stunted, the church’s flourishing and growth are stifled, and women are left feeling frustrated in a culture where both women and their Spirit-given gifts within the kingdom are not respected, used, or valued.
My dad was an Assemblies of God pastor from the mid-1950s to early 1970s. My g-parents on both sides were Assemblies of God pastors in these early days. My mother and grandmothers served in unpaid roles in their churches.
I am still unpacking a lot about these experiences and their identities in my childhood. I grew up in the church parsonage next door to the church. Our lives in the parsonage and church building next door were inseparable.
As a single never married woman I feel strangely resentful of women whose roles in the church are open to them because they are married to someone with access or power. Pastor’s wives are often in roles for which they seem wildly unqualified. They are often taken advantage of and expected to serve unpaid at the same time. My family history enmeshes a lot of emotions around this topic. I want to read this book as part of my own healing and identity.
Well, this is timely.... I am in the midst of considering a position on "the Board" at church. There is mixed opinions on eldership roles as a woman, even within the board. I have been a deaconess in another church and leadership in yet another and always found it a bizarre issue. It never bothers me that I'm a woman, nor do I think it bothers God, and I figure whatever He wants me to do, will not be inhibited by my being one. I get the struggle of wanting to carefully honor the word of God, yet I see many great and God-fearing theologians, and pastors on both sides of the debate. So much focus on the words and how to translate that I wonder if we miss the complete start to finish narrative of the Bible. Man and woman co-inheritors of Creation, working together to rule and reign to the glory of God, God's elect people called as Priests to the nations, and all people called unto him to reign and rule in the New Creation, why is this not significant?
This book sounds so interesting. I love learning about church history and have really enjoyed leaning more about Julian or Norwich and other “church mothers” and spiritual leaders in the earlier church
Thanks Karen! I guess I'm soft complementarian. Love the tradition of deaconesses and in my Anglican world I wish we had more of them. Obviously women can communicate and preach as there are a bunch of examples in the Bible--teach seminary too! It's absurd as well to say they can't own a business, run for office or work outside the home. However, Jesus did not abolish hierarchy and we have to deeply study what the Bible says about gender both in doctrine, narrative and typology. We are the bride of Christ who "adorns herself for her husband." In a culture that is blurring the beautiful differences found in gender it's refreshing to ponder the beautiful, the true and the good in those differences. I find most of the exegesis of St. Paul and St. Peter from egalitarians as deeply unsatisfying. Would love to hear what Beth Allison Barr has to say.
I’m encouraged by your robust support of deaconesses and women preachers and teachers! I agree that hierarchy has not been abolished nor should it be. It’s just been badly abused.
It is also pretty tough on the pastor , as he has to look for a wife driven more by a job description of what the pastor’s wife should do rather than by falling in love.
Hi Karen and fellow readers,
Evangelicals begin our misinterpretation with the creation of Eve. We believe in hierarchy and since Adam came first, well - isn’t it obvious who should be in charge? Paul, of course, grew up in a patriarchal culture and did not see his ministry as one of changing that aspect of Jewish culture. When Protestants decided to revolt - where there was Mary, honored as the Mother of God. Something had to be done and Mary was reduced to something like the average pregnant teenager. An interesting story comes from America’s west. White women were often captured bu the Indian tribes to provide wives for the men since the army had the habit of killing women and children, much easier targets. But when these white women were liberated, a number didn’t want to return to their “privilege” existence as wives of settlers. They found much more respect among these “savages” than they found in their homes back in the settlement. Right now in my church we have one pastor who has stepped aside to determine if he wants to stay in ministry and another in the hospital with a bleeding ulcer. So much pressure on the men to perform while their wives are almost totally left out of the picture. But, of course, there would be something like a massive walk-out if a woman ever ascended the pulpit to preach. But might those pastor’s wives have some encouraging words for the wives in the congregation who believe they must submit?
Jack
That is fascinating, Jack. All of it! Thanks for your insights, as usual.
I can’t wait to read the book. This battle against women within the evangelical church is disturbing and maddening. I think about single women who served as missionaries in dangerous places. Places mission boards didn’t want to send families because of danger. Yet, women went to serve God and fulfill their call.
Single women have such an important place in the church.
I cannot wait to read this book. I’m so tired of being in churches where the wives of pastors are the only women who can lead or teach anything (regardless of spiritual gifting), while there are plenty of lay women who are spiritually gifted in these areas left on the sidelines. God-given gifts are stunted, the church’s flourishing and growth are stifled, and women are left feeling frustrated in a culture where both women and their Spirit-given gifts within the kingdom are not respected, used, or valued.
🤍 Hear, hear, Keri.
My dad was an Assemblies of God pastor from the mid-1950s to early 1970s. My g-parents on both sides were Assemblies of God pastors in these early days. My mother and grandmothers served in unpaid roles in their churches.
I am still unpacking a lot about these experiences and their identities in my childhood. I grew up in the church parsonage next door to the church. Our lives in the parsonage and church building next door were inseparable.
As a single never married woman I feel strangely resentful of women whose roles in the church are open to them because they are married to someone with access or power. Pastor’s wives are often in roles for which they seem wildly unqualified. They are often taken advantage of and expected to serve unpaid at the same time. My family history enmeshes a lot of emotions around this topic. I want to read this book as part of my own healing and identity.
Thanks for sharing some of your story here, Sheila.
Barr’s last book, The Making of Biblical Womanhood, was a revelation. Looking forward to this new work.
Thank you, Katy!
Well, this is timely.... I am in the midst of considering a position on "the Board" at church. There is mixed opinions on eldership roles as a woman, even within the board. I have been a deaconess in another church and leadership in yet another and always found it a bizarre issue. It never bothers me that I'm a woman, nor do I think it bothers God, and I figure whatever He wants me to do, will not be inhibited by my being one. I get the struggle of wanting to carefully honor the word of God, yet I see many great and God-fearing theologians, and pastors on both sides of the debate. So much focus on the words and how to translate that I wonder if we miss the complete start to finish narrative of the Bible. Man and woman co-inheritors of Creation, working together to rule and reign to the glory of God, God's elect people called as Priests to the nations, and all people called unto him to reign and rule in the New Creation, why is this not significant?
Agree with all this, Ashley.
Whew, that subtitle! Haunting and hits close to the bone. Looking forward to this one!
This book sounds so interesting. I love learning about church history and have really enjoyed leaning more about Julian or Norwich and other “church mothers” and spiritual leaders in the earlier church
Church history is filled with so many interesting figures, isn’t it? And so many that have been overlooked.
Thanks Karen! I guess I'm soft complementarian. Love the tradition of deaconesses and in my Anglican world I wish we had more of them. Obviously women can communicate and preach as there are a bunch of examples in the Bible--teach seminary too! It's absurd as well to say they can't own a business, run for office or work outside the home. However, Jesus did not abolish hierarchy and we have to deeply study what the Bible says about gender both in doctrine, narrative and typology. We are the bride of Christ who "adorns herself for her husband." In a culture that is blurring the beautiful differences found in gender it's refreshing to ponder the beautiful, the true and the good in those differences. I find most of the exegesis of St. Paul and St. Peter from egalitarians as deeply unsatisfying. Would love to hear what Beth Allison Barr has to say.
I’m encouraged by your robust support of deaconesses and women preachers and teachers! I agree that hierarchy has not been abolished nor should it be. It’s just been badly abused.
Thanks for chiming in, Jim!
I’m looking forward to reading this new book. Count me in for the giveaway. Thank you.
You are counted in!
This interests us for so many reasons, Karen, most of them related to our own story! Putting my name (and my wife's name) in the hat!
Holding space with you for your story, Andrew.
Thanks so much, Karen. Your work and your example have been such a blessing through some very challenging times.
🙏
Sad I missed the deadline. But I’ll be getting this book anyway!!!
I like her substack very much
Looks like an interesting read. :-)
It is also pretty tough on the pastor , as he has to look for a wife driven more by a job description of what the pastor’s wife should do rather than by falling in love.
Interesting. I'd like to see what she has to say.