"Those aptitudes found expression in local church ministry, but they were not dependent on that context for their fulfillment. I don’t think I could have understood this until pastoral life ended" - Andrew, as someone who is planning to semi (or fully) retire from pastoral ministry next summer, and who sat down after preaching his little heart out this past Sunday morning, overcome by the feeling 'I'll never do something so significant again', those words were like gold, thank you so much for framing it that way. (I quickly reminded myself of the counsel I'd give to others, that in God's good and gracious hands all things are significant, even a cup of cold water - but I'm sure you recognise the weakness of the post-preaching moment...). Also, as a fellow leftie who enjoys writing on paper with pen and ink (including some Diamine Earl Grey) it's great to see those photos!
Thanks Karen, yes indeed. Re writing by hand - I'm pretty much a disorganised and still-haven't-found-what-I'm-looking-for mish-mash. I have paper notebooks, of differing sizes, that I jot thoughts in, Bible reading reflections and also sermon prep work. I have a small collection of fountain pens for that. I also have an eink tablet (a Boox Go 10.3) that is great for writing (and reading) and can convert handwriting to text. And then sometimes I just directly type my thoughts onto my PC (current notetaking app of choice is Obsidian). Writing by hand appears to have so many benefits, say the researchers, and I think they're right. But modern life seems to demand at least a broader suite of options.
When I was teaching I made my students take noted by hand. And my lecture notes are by hand too. So maybe I write more by hand than I think. But when it’s time to sit down and start an essay or book, that’s going write into the computer!
I have to ask, was note taking compulsory? If so, I would have failed as I never took notes :) I absorbed lectures by sitting still, listening and watching. To this day, I can recall information a professor gave in their own words, their tone of voice and even their stance when they delivered it. I have similar memories of sermons - my parents encouraged us to take notes for those, but I'd write the first point and then give up.
Also I write my posts wholly on computer. My mother made us learn typing technique so I can type in time with my thoughts. I can write in cursive, as you know, but since my health has deteriorated, handwriting is very tiring.
No, note taking was not compulsory! I just wouldn’t let students have their laptops open in class. I did let one student during my last year of teaching use one of those digital tablets because it doesn’t do anything else.
Although I should add that there were certain lectures, I gave to my freshman and sophomore classes with material they’d be tested on. So I did make them write those things down.
I'm so encouraged by how God timed this interview landing with you, Richard. I trust that you will feel richly cared for and aided by our God and by his people in this transitional year. I'm offering a prayer for each of those steps as I click 'Reply' on this comment.
*Also: hail fellow leftie! Earl Grey sounds like something I might need to sample (outside of my tea cup!).
This is beautiful Karen and deeply inspiring. As a woman with a seminary degree and no hope of ever working for a local church, I’m wondering if my calling is more to the church at large through the pastoral gift of art and writing.
Thanks for reading the interview, Karen S, and may you know God's clear leading each step of the way as you further discern what he has for you. Those pastoral gifts of art and writing are of such weight. Praying for you as I click 'Reply'.
All these interviews have shared an aspect of calling I relate to, as I am adjusting my own sense of calling. They all speak to calling in place, something the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthians in his first epistle (chapter 7):
"Let each one live his life in the situation the Lord assigned when God called him (v.17)... Brothers and sisters, each person is to remain with God in the situation in which he was called" (v. 24) [CSB].
“I’ve also come to believe that some desires lead to callings, without me fully understanding the blessing of what that entails in advance.”
Longing as our leading! I agree with Andrew and believe the Lord places certain longings in our hearts to help show us (because sometimes we are pretty stubborn) where he is leading us and what he has made us for.
I loved the part in which Andrew mentioned how the end of his pastoral ministry showed him he was still all those things that made him the pastor he was, and that now he could channel those very things that are a part of his essence through other mediums. I wonder, Karen, if this is something you discovered, too, when your career as an in-person professor came to an abrupt end (because of course you’re still very much teaching here and through your words). I cannot wait to read the book!
I had the privilege of taking a poetry seminar with Andrew this summer in Belfast at the C.S. Lewis Summer Institute—he embodies all these things he just shared. So great to get a deeper look into his thoughts on calling. So much to glean from here.
I love this, Karen! I know Andrew a tiny bit from crossing paths in ministry in Ireland and I'm so glad to read this. Both of your work is much needed and truly a gift to the church!
One thing I appreciate in this interview is the idea that calling is dependent on and grows in relationship. It reminds me of something Scottish theologian John Swinton says about identity: “I am a father because I have children. I am a lecturer because I teach at a university.” Our callings, like our identities, grow in the various places where we are planted.
"Those aptitudes found expression in local church ministry, but they were not dependent on that context for their fulfillment. I don’t think I could have understood this until pastoral life ended" - Andrew, as someone who is planning to semi (or fully) retire from pastoral ministry next summer, and who sat down after preaching his little heart out this past Sunday morning, overcome by the feeling 'I'll never do something so significant again', those words were like gold, thank you so much for framing it that way. (I quickly reminded myself of the counsel I'd give to others, that in God's good and gracious hands all things are significant, even a cup of cold water - but I'm sure you recognise the weakness of the post-preaching moment...). Also, as a fellow leftie who enjoys writing on paper with pen and ink (including some Diamine Earl Grey) it's great to see those photos!
Fellow leftie here! Richard, I’m so glad Andrew’s words ministered to you is much a precise and timely way. What a wonderful God thing.
Gotta be honest with both of you—I don’t write anything but notes by hand. And that’s with pen. What am I missing? Do tell.
Thanks Karen, yes indeed. Re writing by hand - I'm pretty much a disorganised and still-haven't-found-what-I'm-looking-for mish-mash. I have paper notebooks, of differing sizes, that I jot thoughts in, Bible reading reflections and also sermon prep work. I have a small collection of fountain pens for that. I also have an eink tablet (a Boox Go 10.3) that is great for writing (and reading) and can convert handwriting to text. And then sometimes I just directly type my thoughts onto my PC (current notetaking app of choice is Obsidian). Writing by hand appears to have so many benefits, say the researchers, and I think they're right. But modern life seems to demand at least a broader suite of options.
When I was teaching I made my students take noted by hand. And my lecture notes are by hand too. So maybe I write more by hand than I think. But when it’s time to sit down and start an essay or book, that’s going write into the computer!
I have to ask, was note taking compulsory? If so, I would have failed as I never took notes :) I absorbed lectures by sitting still, listening and watching. To this day, I can recall information a professor gave in their own words, their tone of voice and even their stance when they delivered it. I have similar memories of sermons - my parents encouraged us to take notes for those, but I'd write the first point and then give up.
Also I write my posts wholly on computer. My mother made us learn typing technique so I can type in time with my thoughts. I can write in cursive, as you know, but since my health has deteriorated, handwriting is very tiring.
No, note taking was not compulsory! I just wouldn’t let students have their laptops open in class. I did let one student during my last year of teaching use one of those digital tablets because it doesn’t do anything else.
Although I should add that there were certain lectures, I gave to my freshman and sophomore classes with material they’d be tested on. So I did make them write those things down.
I'm so encouraged by how God timed this interview landing with you, Richard. I trust that you will feel richly cared for and aided by our God and by his people in this transitional year. I'm offering a prayer for each of those steps as I click 'Reply' on this comment.
*Also: hail fellow leftie! Earl Grey sounds like something I might need to sample (outside of my tea cup!).
Thank you so much, Andrew, that's so kind and much appreciated.
Earl Grey is, as you can imagine, quite subtle and very classy. Not sure it quite translates into my writing, though.... :)
Awesome interview!
Thank you!
This is beautiful Karen and deeply inspiring. As a woman with a seminary degree and no hope of ever working for a local church, I’m wondering if my calling is more to the church at large through the pastoral gift of art and writing.
May the Lord let you hear clearly as it all unfolds.
Thanks for reading the interview, Karen S, and may you know God's clear leading each step of the way as you further discern what he has for you. Those pastoral gifts of art and writing are of such weight. Praying for you as I click 'Reply'.
All these interviews have shared an aspect of calling I relate to, as I am adjusting my own sense of calling. They all speak to calling in place, something the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthians in his first epistle (chapter 7):
"Let each one live his life in the situation the Lord assigned when God called him (v.17)... Brothers and sisters, each person is to remain with God in the situation in which he was called" (v. 24) [CSB].
Yes! Good Pauline wisdom.
“I’ve also come to believe that some desires lead to callings, without me fully understanding the blessing of what that entails in advance.”
Longing as our leading! I agree with Andrew and believe the Lord places certain longings in our hearts to help show us (because sometimes we are pretty stubborn) where he is leading us and what he has made us for.
I loved the part in which Andrew mentioned how the end of his pastoral ministry showed him he was still all those things that made him the pastor he was, and that now he could channel those very things that are a part of his essence through other mediums. I wonder, Karen, if this is something you discovered, too, when your career as an in-person professor came to an abrupt end (because of course you’re still very much teaching here and through your words). I cannot wait to read the book!
I had the privilege of taking a poetry seminar with Andrew this summer in Belfast at the C.S. Lewis Summer Institute—he embodies all these things he just shared. So great to get a deeper look into his thoughts on calling. So much to glean from here.
Thanks Karen and Andrew!
I love this, Karen! I know Andrew a tiny bit from crossing paths in ministry in Ireland and I'm so glad to read this. Both of your work is much needed and truly a gift to the church!
Thank you, Laura! Andrew seems like the real deal in every way and I’m glad I got to share his life and work at The Priory!
One thing I appreciate in this interview is the idea that calling is dependent on and grows in relationship. It reminds me of something Scottish theologian John Swinton says about identity: “I am a father because I have children. I am a lecturer because I teach at a university.” Our callings, like our identities, grow in the various places where we are planted.